146. A.I Unplugged: Bots Spill the Secrets to Meaningful Work by Reviewing My Book - Make Work Meaningful: How To Create A Culture That Leaves A Legacy

In this special episode of Ways to Change the Workplace, host Prina Shah takes you on an exciting journey into the future with a twist – AI bots are discussing her upcoming book, Make Work Meaningful: How to Create a Culture that Leaves a Legacy.

Prina shares how her friend, Chris Fenning, used Notebook LM, an A.I tool, to transform her manuscript into an AI-generated conversation. This dynamic dialogue between a male and female bot dives deep into the core themes of her book, including:

• The Achievement and Legacy Paradox – Hitting professional milestones but still feeling unfulfilled.
• Defining Your Desired Culture – Building a work environment that aligns with trust and change.
• Sales and Anchors – Identifying what drives a company forward and what holds it back.
• Leading with Head, Heart, and Backbone – Balancing strategic thinking, emotional intelligence, and making tough decisions.
• Moments That Matter – Practical actions that bring desired workplace culture to life.

From AI chatbots to philosophical wisdom, this episode is packed with actionable insights for leaders, teams, and organisations looking to make work more meaningful.

Key Takeaways:

1. The power of shifting from external recognition to creating a personal legacy at work.
2. How to evaluate and shift workplace culture through actionable frameworks.
3. The importance of aligning ambition with meaning and legacy.
4. Creating trust, transparency, and authenticity in leadership.

Tune in to hear the future of work and AI unfold, and don’t forget to reach out to Prina with your thoughts on this AI-powered episode.

Transcript

Swell AI Transcript: A.I Pod Make Work Meaningful FULL.mp3

SPEAKER_00:
Hello and welcome to this episode of Ways to Change the Workplace with myself, Prerna Shah. I love what I do. I'm a global leadership coach, a consultant, a trainer, a keynote speaker, a podcaster. I help you to develop your leaders, your teams, and I help you to optimize your organizational cultures. I'm here to help you find ways to change your workplace. Why? Because we spend more time in our waking day at work than we do with our loved ones. It has to be a good place to be. So in this podcast, you can expect a mix of interviews with amazing thought leaders and then some solo episodes from myself as well. Strap yourselves in. Hello, hello, and welcome to this very special episode of the Ways to Change Your Workplace podcast with me, your host, Prerna Shah. And it's very special because I am bringing you some bots. Yep, B-O-T-S. Unreal people, AI. So as many of you know, I am soon to be publishing my book which is called Make Work Meaningful, How to Create a Culture that Leaves a Legacy. And my friend Chris Fenning, who you should all know, he's been on my podcast before, typed in my book, my manuscript, into an amazing new AI tool that you probably haven't heard of. It's called Notebook LM. and notebook LM created an audio file a podcast about my book two people it's a man and a woman talking about my book now it is the best thing and the weirdest thing I tell you so they really understand the concepts of my book and they dive deep into it and they constantly refer to me as Shah That's my surname. It makes me think of my dad. So tune in and please you have to get back in touch with me to tell me what you think about this episode. And if you're listening to this episode in the future, hey future people, what the fuck is happening with AI right now in your world? I can only imagine that it is even more mind blowing than it is right now. And I hope it's not too negative in the world. AI is being used for good and not for shite. Okay, let me get back to talking about making work meaningful. Listen to a male bot and a female bot talk about making work meaningful. Over to them now and get in touch with me.

SPEAKER_02: ever feel like you're just, you know, chasing after someone else's idea of success at work. Yeah. Like you're stuck on this treadmill. Right. Promotions, achievements, the whole shebang. And you still feel kind of empty inside.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: Well, that's where our deep dive into Make Work Meaningful comes in. This book by Preena Shah, by the way, really dives deep. It does. And it's not about, you know, like becoming CEO. Right. Unless, of course, that's what you're going for.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: If that's your thing. Totally cool. Yeah. But it's really more about finding your own way. Yeah. To make like a real impact. You know, something that lasts wherever you are in your career. It doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_01: And that's what I find so fascinating about this book. Shaw doesn't just preach at you, you know, from some high horse. It gives you actual tool, things you can do… to figure out what matters to you at work. And then actually, you know, the steps to make it happen.

SPEAKER_02: Totally. It's like, remember that Find Your Why thing? That was everywhere. Like, what, a couple years ago? This book's like the guidebook for that, but specifically for your job.

SPEAKER_01: Absolutely. Absolutely. And it all starts with, um, acknowledging something she calls the, uh, achievement and legacy paradox. Ooh. You might be hitting every single milestone, you know, corner office, the fancy title. Right. But there's still this feeling like something's missing.

SPEAKER_02: Okay. So let me paint a picture.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: You finally snag that big promotion, right? But it means longer hours, more stress, less time with the family, things that actually, like, truly matter to you. And suddenly, that dream job doesn't seem so dreamy.

SPEAKER_01: Not so much. And that's that's the paradox right there. You're living it. And so the book kind of it nudges you to shift focus away from just chasing his external pats on the back, you know, to really defining what a meaningful legacy at work, what that looks like for you personally.

SPEAKER_02: And here's what I find really cool. Shaw doesn't assume, like, everyone's starting at the same point. No, no, no. Right. You're not all on the same level playing field. So she kicks things off with this exercise. Okay. To understand the existing culture. Yeah. Of your workplace. Think of it like, I don't know, checking the soil before you plant a garden or something.

SPEAKER_01: Exactly. You can't just, like, sprinkle good vibes around. Right. And expect this thriving culture to just poof, appear. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Shaw uses this really cool quadrant model based on trust and change, and it helps you really pinpoint where your company's at right now.

SPEAKER_02: So, is it like a sinking ship situation?

SPEAKER_01: It could be.

SPEAKER_02: Where trust is, like, nonexistent, nothing ever changes. Or you're cruising along, smooth sailing, high trust, good change is happening.

SPEAKER_01: Exactly.

SPEAKER_02: Figuring that out, that's key before you even try to, like, move anything.

SPEAKER_01: A hundred percent. And, you know, speaking of things going wrong, there's this cautionary tale in the book about the, uh… Serial killer.

SPEAKER_02: The serial killer sounds ominous.

SPEAKER_01: Right. This employee so focused on efficiency, like laser focused. Okay. But they totally missed the mark on company culture. What'd they do? So they decided to cut costs, right? Sounds good in theory. Yeah. Yeah. Got rid of the free breakfast program.

SPEAKER_02: Okay. Saves the company money.

SPEAKER_01: Makes sense. But they underestimated how important those breakfasts were for the team.

SPEAKER_02: The bonding.

SPEAKER_01: The morale. Right. So serial killer. Right. Not exactly the legacy you want to leave behind.

SPEAKER_02: Not the best nickname.

SPEAKER_01: No. And this story really highlights why you've got to understand the culture before you start changing things. Which brings us to Shah's defining your desired culture workshop.

SPEAKER_02: OK, so we've, like, diagnosed the problem. Now we get to dream a little.

SPEAKER_01: Exactly. That's fun. But Shaw doesn't want you just throwing out, like, these vague ideas, like, oh, let's all be more collaborative. Right. No, she gives you a real framework. to define what that looks like.

SPEAKER_02: In actual practice, I like that.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah. And importantly, it can't just be the higher ups deciding.

SPEAKER_02: Oh, of course not.

SPEAKER_01: You need buy in from everybody, not just the highest paid person in the room.

SPEAKER_02: Oh, the high PPO effect.

SPEAKER_01: The high TPO.

SPEAKER_02: Highest paid person's opinion.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah. It's like this unspoken weight, you know? Stifles creativity if you let it.

SPEAKER_02: For sure. Okay. So how do we get away from the HIPPO?

SPEAKER_01: Well, Shaw has this fun exercise. Imagine your organization as an animal.

SPEAKER_02: Okay. I'm game. What animal best represents, you know, your typical corporate environment? Give me your best shot.

SPEAKER_01: Oh man. You know, I think I'm going to have to go with A chameleon.

SPEAKER_02: A chameleon. Okay. Interesting. Explain that one.

SPEAKER_01: Always adapting, blending in. Sometimes, you know, changing colors to fit in.

SPEAKER_02: Oh, I see where you're going with that. Yeah. Always adapting to the demands.

SPEAKER_01: Yes. Right.

SPEAKER_02: Yes. Sometimes losing that sense of like authenticity along the way.

SPEAKER_01: Exactly. And it can lead to this culture where people, they're afraid to speak up, to show their true selves.

SPEAKER_02: All right. So we've had some fun. Animal metaphors, thinking outside the box. What's the next step in building this, this dream work culture?

SPEAKER_01: So Shaw introduces this idea of identifying the sales and the anchors of the organization. Okay. So the sales, those are the strengths, things that propel the company forward. The anchors, those are holding it back.

SPEAKER_02: So the sales would be like strong leadership, innovative ideas, supportive team, that kind of thing. Yeah. And anchors. Maybe, like, bad communication? Yes. Lack of clear goals? Fear of taking risks?

SPEAKER_01: Exactly. By looking at both the good and the bad, you get a much clearer picture.

SPEAKER_02: Where you are and where you could be. Exactly. That's like taking inventory before you can, like, renovate anything. Right. You need to know what you're working with. Exactly. And this is where things get real, right? This is it. It's one thing to, like, daydream about a better work culture. Mm-hmm. But how do we actually make it happen?

SPEAKER_01: That's the million-dollar question. And Shaw, she's got some really tactical advice. She says, we've got to borrow a page from the marketing playbook, specifically the know, like, and trust principle.

SPEAKER_02: marketing, like the stuff we use to sell like products to customers. How does that even how does that apply to to company culture? Yeah, that feels very internal.

SPEAKER_01: Right. But think about it. You need people to know about this new culture you're building. Right. OK. Get them excited about it. And ultimately, trust that it's the real deal. You're basically treating your culture like a brand. OK. And you're launching it internally.

SPEAKER_02: I can kind of see that. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. So, okay. How do you build know when it comes to like something as, as I don't know, amorphous as company culture.

SPEAKER_01: It starts with communication. Clear, consistent communication. Don't just, you know, bury those values in some employee handbook. Right. That nobody reads. Nobody reads it. Team meetings, emails, even those screen savers in the break room. Oh yeah. Make sure those desired behaviors, they're visible.

SPEAKER_02: Everywhere. Repetition. I'm getting it.

SPEAKER_01: Repetition, consistency key.

SPEAKER_02: But how do we get people to actually buy in, you know, to like, not just know the values, but, but really embrace them. How do we build the like?

SPEAKER_01: Authenticity. That's the key. Okay. People, they can spot a phony a mile away. Oh yeah. Leadership. They have to walk the walk, not just talk the talk. If you're, you're going on and on about collaboration. Right. But shooting down every idea that isn't yours. Yeah. That's not building trust.

SPEAKER_02: Definitely not.

SPEAKER_01: Not even a little bit.

SPEAKER_02: It's one thing to make a cute poster, right? That's another thing to actually live it. Every single day.

SPEAKER_01: Exactly. And then, you know, that brings us to trust, which, honestly… can be the hardest one. Oh, for sure. How do you do that?

SPEAKER_02: How do you build real trust?

SPEAKER_01: Right.

SPEAKER_02: I feel like it requires vulnerability, right?

SPEAKER_01: Yes.

SPEAKER_02: Transparency from leadership.

SPEAKER_01: Yes.

SPEAKER_02: Open communication. Hundred percent. Being able to admit when you've messed up.

SPEAKER_01: Yes. Yes. Yes. It's about creating this environment where people, they feel safe. They feel safe taking risks, sharing ideas. Right. And knowing they'll be heard. Even if their feedback, you know, isn't always positive.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah. And it's not just about, you know, surface level stuff. It's about building those psychological contracts, right? Like Shaw talks about. It's like those unspoken expectations, the needs that go beyond the job description.

SPEAKER_01: Absolutely. It's seeing each other as human beings with our own experiences, our own perspective.

SPEAKER_02: Okay. So we have now laid the groundwork for like this amazing work culture, right? We did it. We did it. But what about when things inevitably go off the rails?

SPEAKER_01: They will.

SPEAKER_02: Because careers rarely a straight line to the top.

SPEAKER_01: And Shaw, she's got us covered. There's a whole section on navigating career plot twists. OK. Because things happen. You get laid off. The company gets bought. Your dream project implodes. It's not about what happens to you. It's how you respond. That's what really matters.

SPEAKER_02: She quotes Steve Jobs in this section. And I love this quote. He said, your work is going to fill a large part of your life. And the only way to be truly satisfied is to do what you believe is great work.

SPEAKER_01: It's so good. It's that reminder that even when those curveballs come at you, you still have that power. You do. To find the meaning. Yes. The purpose in what you're doing. It's all about the meaning. And sometimes those plot twists. Yeah. They actually lead to something even better. It can. Right. Like what if that layoff. Yeah. pushes you to finally start that side hustle. There you go. The one you've been dreaming about.

SPEAKER_02: Exactly. Yeah. And Shaw actually gives you this great exercise. It's called weekly self-coaching. OK. To help you to help you stay grounded. I'll make it. Stay focused on those long term goals no matter how chaotic things get.

SPEAKER_01: OK. So walk me through this self-coaching thing. What's that look like?

SPEAKER_02: It's simple, but powerful, right?

SPEAKER_01: Every week you're taking a few minutes to just reflect on your wins, your challenges, what you learn. Okay. You're checking in with yourself. I love that. Are you still aligned with your values? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: What needs tweaking? It's like a little strategy session.

SPEAKER_01: Exactly. With yourself. With yourself that we all need. Yes. A hundred percent. And speaking of strategy, what else we got?

SPEAKER_02: Shaw also talks about this, this really important idea. Knowing when to leave a job.

SPEAKER_01: Well.

SPEAKER_02: Ooh, that's a tough one. It is. Especially if it's a job you love, right? Like you've put your heart and soul into building this positive culture. Yeah. How do you know when it's time to go?

SPEAKER_01: It's about recognizing when you've hit your potential in that role, or maybe even in that company. Sometimes the absolute best thing you can do for you, for the team, for everybody, is to step aside. Make space. Make space for fresh energy, new ideas.

SPEAKER_02: But it's not just about like, peace out, I'm out here. No. You want to leave that place better than you found it.

SPEAKER_01: A hundred percent. You're leaving a legacy. And that's where this concept of demob happy comes in. Demob happy. Yeah. It's approaching your departure as this amazing opportunity to empower the people around you.

SPEAKER_02: So instead of like hoarding all the knowledge. Yes. Clinging to that power.

SPEAKER_01: Let it go.

SPEAKER_02: You focus on sharing what you know. Yes. Setting your successor up for success.

SPEAKER_01: Exactly. And Shaw, she actually gives you a template in the book to create a knowledge transfer plan. So valuable.

SPEAKER_02: It's like that saying, right? What's that? Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime. I love that. It's not just leaving the job. You are leaving a legacy.

SPEAKER_01: Exactly. And you know, that ties into another big thing when it comes to making work meaningful. Busting those Lone Ranger tendencies. Oh yeah. You know what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_02: The I can do it all myself trap. Yes.

SPEAKER_01: We've all been there.

SPEAKER_02: We have all been there.

SPEAKER_01: Right. You want to prove yourself. Take on more, more, more, more. But eventually it's not sustainable.

SPEAKER_02: No, you burn out.

SPEAKER_01: You burn out. And honestly, it can hurt the team. You might think you're being all efficient, but you're missing out on valuable input collaboration. Shaw, she talks about the real risks of burning out because you're going at it alone.

SPEAKER_02: And it's not just individual contributors who fall into this, right? Even managers, we can isolate ourselves.

SPEAKER_01: Oh, absolutely. Thinking we've got to have all the answers. All the time. Newsflash, we don't. Nope. And Shaw, she's got another self-assessment tool for us.

SPEAKER_02: Okay. I love these.

SPEAKER_01: Right. This one helps you figure out how collaborative your team really is. A great way to spot those Lone Ranger behaviors. Start breaking down those silos.

SPEAKER_02: Because, I mean, Bottom line, we can do so much more together.

SPEAKER_01: Always. We're better together. And that brings us to, I think, one of my favorite parts. Leading with head, heart, and backbone.

SPEAKER_02: OK. I'm intrigued.

SPEAKER_01: Break that down for me. All right. So it's about finding that perfect balance between strategic thinking. The head. I got it. Emotional intelligence. Go to heart. And the guts to make those tough calls.

SPEAKER_02: Backbone. Love it.

SPEAKER_01: It's about being well-rounded. You're making smart decisions at the head, but you're also thinking about your team with that big old heart.

SPEAKER_02: And staying true to your values. Even when it's hard, that's the backbone.

SPEAKER_01: So head is the logical side, the analytical side of leadership. Heart is that empathy piece, connecting with your team on a human level. And backbone is about integrity, standing up for what you believe in, even when it's hard.

SPEAKER_02: perfectly set. And guess what? Shah's got another self-assessment.

SPEAKER_00: No way.

SPEAKER_02: I know, right? She's got us covered to help you figure out where you are, your strengths, your weaknesses in each of these areas.

SPEAKER_01: I love it. She really does give you like the tools to actually put this into practice.

SPEAKER_02: Practical, practical, practical.

SPEAKER_01: Okay, so we've talked about defining your dream culture, communicating it, dealing with those long wolves out there, and leading with your whole self. Whole shebang. Right. But now we have to talk about moments that matter. Can you elaborate on that for me? Yes. These are the things you do. The actions you take that actually bring your desired culture to life. Okay. And Shaw, she breaks it down even further. Okay. Based on your role in the company.

SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's smart. It makes it really practical. Yeah. So give me some examples. What are some of these moments?

SPEAKER_01: All right. So for CEOs. A moment that matters might be about empowering culture ambassadors. Oh, I like that. Right. These are the folks who really live the values. They inspire everyone around them just by being themselves. Love it. Or CEOs could even organize culture hackathons.

SPEAKER_02: Okay, that sounds very Silicon Valley.

SPEAKER_01: It does, but it could work anywhere, right? Get all the employees together, brainstorming ways to make work more engaging, more positive.

SPEAKER_02: That's an amazing way to get everyone involved too.

SPEAKER_01: Exactly. For leaders, those moments might look a little different. Maybe it's about creating reverse mentoring programs.

SPEAKER_02: Ooh, interesting. Tell me more about that.

SPEAKER_01: So junior folks, they mentor the senior leaders.

SPEAKER_02: Oh, I like that. Flipping the script.

SPEAKER_01: Exactly. Get those fresh perspective, the latest trends.

SPEAKER_02: Is that recognition that everyone has something to teach?

SPEAKER_01: Exactly. Regardless of how long they've been there.

SPEAKER_02: I love that. Okay. What about for team members? What are some moments that matter for them?

SPEAKER_01: So many possibilities. Organize a skill sharing workshop. Oh, nice. Right. Learn from each other, maybe a diversity potluck. Yum. Celebrate all those different backgrounds, the richness, or even just designating some meetings as unplugged.

SPEAKER_02: Ooh, I can get behind that one.

SPEAKER_01: Right. Encourage more present conversations. Yeah. More meaningful connection.

SPEAKER_02: I love all of these. And it really shows that everyone at every level has a role to play in creating this more meaningful, fulfilling work life. Not just for yourself, but for everyone.

SPEAKER_01: It's a team effort.

SPEAKER_02: It is. It really is. This has been so insightful. Sha gives so much practical advice. He does. But for you, what's the biggest takeaway?

SPEAKER_01: You know, for me, it always comes back to aligning your ambition with meaning and legacy. Yeah. It's finding that sweet spot where your work, it not only uses your skills, it uses your heart.

SPEAKER_02: It's that sense of purpose.

SPEAKER_01: Yes. Yes. That what you do matters. It matters. And that, my friend, can fuel your passion, your resilience. Everything. It can lead to a much more fulfilling career.

SPEAKER_02: All right. So as we kind of wind down this amazing deep dive, Shah leaves us with a pretty profound thought from the Indian Advaita philosophy. You are me and I am you. Now connect that to creating a meaningful work life.

SPEAKER_01: Go. Oh, I love this. It's like it's that recognition, right, that we're not just these islands all striving for success on our own. We're part of this web, this interconnected web. And what we do, it ripples out.

SPEAKER_02: It affects everyone.

SPEAKER_01: Exactly.

SPEAKER_02: So when we create this positive space for ourselves at work, we're actually like adding to that. for our teammates, our clients, even our communities.

SPEAKER_01: It's like this ripple effect of good. You know, it's realizing that we're all in this together, creating a better work life. It's not just about, you know, climbing your own ladder. It's about that shared purpose that we're all working towards and everybody benefits.

SPEAKER_02: It's like that rising tide lifts all boats.

SPEAKER_01: Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_02: And that shared purpose can be so strong. It can be. It can give meaning to even like the most boring parts of your job. Yeah. And build these bonds that like go way beyond the office.

SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02: I love that. So as we, I guess, close the book on make work meaningful. Yeah. What's the one thing you really hope listeners like take away from this conversation from Shaw's work?

SPEAKER_01: I hope they realize that they have the power, you know, more than they think to create the work life they want. It's not about waiting for someone to give you permission or to hand you your dream job on a silver platter. It's about knowing what matters to you, taking initiative and having those tough conversations, the ones that can spark real change.

SPEAKER_02: It's about owning it, owning your career, knowing that you can make a difference for yourself and the people around you.

SPEAKER_01: A hundred percent. It's a journey. It is. It's all about constantly learning, growing, working together.

SPEAKER_02: Oh, this has been amazing. Thank you so much for being here and sharing all this. It's been such a pleasure unpacking these ideas with you.

SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me. This is so fun.

SPEAKER_02: And to everyone listening, we hope this deep dive into Make Work Meaningful, that it's given you some inspiration. Yeah. And some tools to make work, you know, actually meaningful. Remember, you're not in this alone. We're all in this together. We are. Until next time, keep making those waves.

SPEAKER_00: Unbelievably good, hey? Told you. This episode is nuts. So what questions do you have in relation to the book? What have you picked up? What do you want to learn more about Make Work Meaningful? All of my details and all of the details about my book, Make Work Meaningful, how to create a culture that leaves a legacy, is in the show notes. Reach out to me on LinkedIn. Drop me an email. Contact me on Instagram. All of my details are in the show notes. Let me know what you thought. This is the future. Alright, over and out for now and I will see you in the next episode. How good was that episode? If you liked it, be sure to share it with a couple of other people. Also in the show notes are details about my newsletter. Keep in touch, I send a newsletter out around once a month. It won't be spammy, it will be very practical. And if we're not connected on LinkedIn yet, we must be. Connect with me on LinkedIn. And on Instagram, I am prina.sha. I will see you somewhere else or in the next episode. Until then, goodbye.